Many people say old-age and death are natural… that these are the birth-death cycle of nature in action.
Perhaps this outlook comes from people thinking there are no alternatives to death.
People with a positive outlook on life will be inclined to think the set-up they see in the world around them must somehow be “right”, so it’s natural they will have a philosophy that death is natural and a “part of life”. I certainly thought this myself before I came across the idea of physical immortality.
Once people believe death is natural, they will look for all sorts of things that could be good about it. Why wouldn’t they! Like death means going to be with God, experiencing peace and love, experiencing great mystery, going to a “better place” and experiencing more than “just this life”. And it’s wrong to be “too wrapped up in this material world” anyway.
There are whole established spiritual traditions that teach it’s a worthy thing to feel good about our bodies dying, allowing us to go to a “better place” (or whatever).
Alternatives
The information has been around for some time now that the birth-death cycle is not natural—death is something mankind has chosen up to now and can un-choose. And that the things people think dying will achieve are really most easily achieved in life.
The thing is, we are already “with God” now, in our bodies. Thinking we aren’t comes from feeling separate from the creative source and other people, as most of us have felt at some time (or quite often). This is something we can heal, and I’d suggest, from what I’ve read, we can heal this pattern faster and better when we are alive than when we are dead (between lives).
I’d also suggest to anyone who thinks we go to be with God when we die, that God is the life force flowing through us (among other things), and when we die we are actually trying to shut out God.
Could longing for “a better place” be a case of “the grass is greener on the other side of the fence”, combined with a feeling of powerlessness that learning about the Law of Attraction could cure? And why exactly is “this material world”—God’s creation—so bad?
Our purpose
Maybe it is our purpose to bring our spirit fully into matter. And in the process become fully self-realized physical human beings. Perhaps we humans are God’s way of expressing in the physical realm, and we cannot do what we are meant to do until we have mastered this physical existance, by which I mean getting our lives really working… love, health, happiness, prosperity, relationships, creativity… and overcoming death.
Who knows what we might get up to after that! We may have shiny, light-filled bodies, we may be able to travel faster than the speed of light. But no doubt our consciousness will be so expanded compared to how it is now it is hardly worth trying to guess what may be in store. Also, thinking about these things too much takes us out of present time, and it’s by following our intuitive impulses in the present moment that we make the steps towards becoming self-realized.
Our friends
Just a thought about the plants and animals…
I personally have no particular opinion about what is going on with their life-cycles—maybe they are reflecting our consciousness back to us… maybe they simply share our consciousness and will transform when we transform… maybe they have their own story.
It would be great if you leave a comment in the comments section below. To do this, click on the word “comments”.
photo of lotus by tanakawho
photo of lorikeet by aussiegall
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Aaron - Today is that Day 06.22.08 at 11:42 pm
I think that the amount of time we spend in these physical bodies is indeed something that we can control, and that a large part of aging is simply us believing that we are SUPPOSED to age.
At the same time, I think it’s possible that when we go to the next stage, it will just be our chance to release all of the things that we learned while in our “human” bodies so that the greater consciousness can learn from it.
What happens after that might very well be up to us to decide when we get there!
Aaron - Today is that Days last blog post..Why your Success Systems are not Working
Vered 06.23.08 at 3:08 am
I don’t believe that when we die we are going to a better place or joining God. I believe that when we die we just perish, cease to exist.
Still, I accept death as part of life, and take comfort in the fact that I am living a very full and happy life.
Vereds last blog post..The Blurry Line Between Online and Real-Life Relationships
Barbara Swafford 06.23.08 at 4:48 pm
If God is “with us” at all times, than death just becomes a continuation of that relationship. Too many people waste time searching for a relationship with God (or a higher power) and it’s always there for the asking.
Barbara Swaffords last blog post..You’re Only As Good As Your Current Post
Robin 06.23.08 at 5:31 pm
@Aaron - thanks for your thoughtful comment! - in my opinion we have a choice about these things, and I agree… we will be deciding on the matters of the next level when we get there!
@Vered - I was so pleased when I saw your comment when I got up in the early hours - our time - because I couldn’t sleep. I think love and connection are SO much more important than any philosophical viewpoint.
@Barbara - Yes I think so - on both counts. (I might say here that I don’t think there’s anything wrong with death - it’s just that it’s a waste) Great to see you - thanks for adding to the discussion!
Eric 06.24.08 at 6:13 am
I like how you say that theres not really anything to wrong with death, just that its a waste. Its like throwing away a bag of apples that has gone bad. Sure the world will spin on with them in the garbage but it would have been nice to see them used to their full potential.
Alot of people, like the first comment points out, think we HAVE TO age. What about the option that maybe we can take away that damage that accumulates with aging so we stay alive indefinitely? Where is the thinking outside the box? Aging isnt a narrow, we die, sort of picture. As with everything there are options and dynamics.
Anyways, SENS is one expedition going on outside that box. Its for the repair and reversal of aging so we live indefinently. They have a conference at UCLA on June 28 and 29 I beleive. Parts of the conference are free.
For anybody who may not know, there is a whole community of us, life extension minded people, at imminst.org Please do come chat.
Marelisa 06.24.08 at 9:41 am
Robin, Have you heard of “The Celestine Prophecy”? The author explains that the Incas at Macchu Picchu (Peru) were able to raise their vibrations to a point where they simply disappeared. I think maybe that’s the alternative.
Marelisas last blog post..Decide What You Want
Chris 06.24.08 at 10:03 am
When we die we are shutting out God, now that’s deep. I never thought it like this until you pointed it out. You’ve jarred my understanding of death and its relation to God. I’m going to really think about this one. I still however think that death is a part of life and that there’s beyond death.
Chriss last blog post..Haaaaarvard
Natural 06.24.08 at 11:44 am
I think death is the opposite of life. Like on is the opposite of off. If death means life somewhere else, are you really dead. If you turn the light off, is it really still on somewhere?
I like Vered’s definition: Death means cease to exist. It seems so simple.
I don’t think it’s natural, why would we be created to live, suffer and die? Interesting question for sure.
Naturals last blog post..Too Successful For A Mate
Robin 06.24.08 at 1:03 pm
@Eric - great to hear from you - I like your apple analogy. And i agree - we have options, in my opinion.
@Marelisa - the books I have read talk of us eventually being able to dematerialize and re-materialize - and all sorts of other things. As I said in the post, I don’t think it’s too healthy to over-focus on that sort of thing (I haven’t read The Celestine Prophecy - maybe I should! - thanks). Thanks for your contribution!
@Chris - I’ve just got these ideas out of all sorts of books I’ve read, and workshops I’ve been to. I’m glad you think it’s worth thinking about… I do! Have fun being sillyphophical at Haaaaarvard!
@Natural - In ‘The Starseed Transmissions’ it talks a lot about opposites - that we constantly switch in and out of form - and so on (eg between what can be named and what can’t be named). I’m glad you think these questions are interesting - great to hear from you!
cloudsters 06.24.08 at 6:36 pm
An interesting post & debate! One wonders how the ’segmentation’ of life would change if our existence could be dramatically extended. Would childhood and teenhood last for decades? We shouldn’t say that these are ‘natural’ stages: Childhood used to be a brutally short interlude and ‘the teen years’ had to be invented as society and life expectancies changed and lengthened respectively. Our very understanding of human maturation, in other words, might be revised - it’s not a just case of ‘more of the same, and better’!
cloudsterss last blog post..When parenting is like a horror movie
rainer 06.25.08 at 7:42 am
Dear robin, well now I get curious. How you many centuries have you wandered through this world? Did you travel to america by sail-ship. How many languages have you learnt, and how did you cope with the perpetual repetitions. Nothing really changes only the appearance.
How many times have you wept while you suffered the loss of beloved ones?
rainers last blog post..Men learning love: Unconditional Love
Robin 06.25.08 at 12:37 pm
@cloudsters - thanks for your comment - it’s interesting to think of the different possibilities, isn’t it!
@rainer - I don’t quite know what to say! (do you mean French verbs? - he he) Your writing is beautiful, as always.
William 07.27.08 at 12:28 pm
Hello Robin,
A good friend of mine ran up on this page. My friend told me that I would enjoy hearing what you had to say. My friend has not disappointed me at all. As a matter of fact it made my heart rejoice. The spirit in me, moved as I understood what you were saying. I want to give you a HIGH FIVE in the spirit. I commend you on your research and looking for a life of reality rather than fantasy. Real is real. If it is not real, it is not. I am not going to go through the whole foundation with you, because I can feel your spirit. But just to tell a little history and destiny. History lets us know that God made Adam. Through Adam I must add Eve as well. Through Adam and Eve came Cain, they opened up the door for death. From that point on we have been dying. It was pre-destinate that a man was going to come forth and open the door back up to life. I call this man Jesus Christ. God sent his only begotten son. I, William call him the God of Israel, who I serve with all of my heart, soul, mind, and strength. The God of Israel is my all and all. The God of Israel has let me see eternally. WE CAN LIVE!. WE MUST BE TAUGHT HOW TO LIVE. We cannot live without, the Lord God of Israel. As I said I do not have to cover all the basics, because I can see you and I can feel you. I know that this knowledge given to you Robin, didn’t come from anyone else but The God of Israel, which is the One and Only True God. I do not know what you call God. I hope I do not offend you by what I say I call God. Because I am not trying to offend you in any way.
Just like Jesus saw Nathanel, I feel like I can see you, in which direction you are trying to go in. The direction that leads to life. I am simply saying, If I can help you on your journey, I will roll out the red carpet and tell them to bring the finest silverware and have a great feast for a person that has chosen life, rather than death. Jesus saw this in Nathanael just like I see you.
St. John 1:46-51 And Nathanael said unto him, can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see. Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel. Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these. And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
Matthew 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
We just have to be taught how to live. Because the God of Israel is not the God of the dead. When Jesus opened up that door to life again, then the scripture bare-witness in St. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. We must get what was IN Jesus, and then we can have everlasting life. What was Jesus mission? Jesus had more than one mission. Let’s name a few of his missions. One of them was to let the people know that he was sent by his Father, The God of Israel, according to what he taught…
St. Matthew 15:30-31 And great multitudes came unto him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and cast them down at Jesus’ feet; and he healed them: Insomuch that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified THE GOD OF ISRAEL.
Another mission for Jesus was to die on the cross for the remission of sin and open the door back up to LIFE.
Another mission was for him to send the COMFORTER, which is a man.
St. John 16:7-10 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the COMFORTER will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Jesus said that he had to go so that he could send the Comforter, which is a man, that is going to reprove the world of sin. Meaning The COMFORTER is going to change destiny. Just like it was foretold about Jesus coming. Jesus also foretold his disciples about the COMFORTER coming.
I am not dotting all of my i’s and I am not crossing all of my t’s yet. I am not covering everything because I feel like you are on a level You are right YOU CAN LIVE! It is a sin to die. The gift of God is eternal life.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. So if the gift of God is eternal just like it says, eternal does not have an end, eternal keeps going. Meaning if we learn the God of Israel’s ways WE CAN LIVE FOREVER, AND NEVER DIE IN THESE BODIES. The God of Israel lives in these bodies. Jesus Christ lives in these bodies. The kingdom, according to what Jesus said is coming.
St. Luke 17:21 neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
So if everything they are telling us to die and go get is already IN us, then we just need to learn to hook up to what is already IN us. Just like Jesus gave Peter the keys, we need the keys to eternal life. When we get these keys, open up the door, walk in, and don’t look back. The God of Israel said he will preserve these bodies, that means aging will be put to a cease. All the curses that have been put on these bodies from generation to generation and they program us to DIE. Light is here, so then LIFE is also here. Just like I believe that Thomas was moved by the spirit and kept going and light was there. From that same power, we have light today. When it is time to live, it is time to live. THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO DIE, THIS IS THE TIME TO LIVE. I do not want to hold you any longer but my cup runneth over. I enjoyed your information and I can not express that enough. Even if you choose not to get in contact with me again.
Sometimes people get threaten by what people know. Then sometimes they begin to build a wall, rather natural or spiritual and they begin to draw a line. Some of us are just like Jacob, when he wrestled with the angel until the break of day. You are lead by the spirit of truth. Just like it says in Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
If you are led by the spirit of God, then you must have a desire to be a true worshipper.
St. John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
This is the type of spirit I feel that you are. You are a chosen vessel. I believe you are predestined to be taught how t live forever. You can look at several blogs I’ve posted on myspace. Look under the name William and you will see a palm tree with water for a picture. You can also reach me at thegodofisrael AT bellsouth DOT net any time you want to reach me. I look forward to hearing from you. I welcome any of your questions or comments from you or your readers. I hope that you will take some time to visit myspace, and if you feel comfortable enough you can subscribe to my blogs even become a friend!
I know one day I shall meet you, and you shall meet me. If you stay on this pathway to life, because I am saying I AM GOING TO LIVE FOREVER.
Peace & Love to you, in the God of Israel
William
Robin 07.27.08 at 1:34 pm
Hi there William!
The Bible is so full of references to eternal life it is ridiculous - in my view our human egos have interpreted “eternal life” as meaning some sort of non-physical after-life state, as a way of avoiding becoming self-realised.
I like your “It is a sin to die. The gift of God is eternal life.” - it about says it all!
I’d just like to say that I don’t think I’m a “chosen vessel”, or not any more than we all are - I think I’m doing this blog to maybe make it easier for me to get it! If there were a whole lot of 80-year-olds running around looking like they were 30, it would be easier for me to reverse the aging process, wouldn’t it?!
Cheers - and thanks so much for your thoughtful comment - Robin
William 07.28.08 at 2:07 am
Hello again Robin,
I appreciate your comment, and helping me with important information such as spamming and advice on giving a direct link to myspace. Maybe you do not feel like you are a chosen vessel but you are a vessel to me. Living waters, which are living words, are coming out of you. This is the reason I say you are a chosen vessel. I like to say if I can help you in any kind of way Robin, please let me know. You and I are on the same mission. Let us keep going. Let us never get tired of living.
I also teach people about the keys to eternal life. This was something I didn’t mention in the previous comment. If you and I work together, maybe we can help people see and understand that they can live. It is time out for dying. Let us live my sister, and teach others how to do the same. Thank you.
Here is my website link…. http://www.myspace.com/the_god_of_israel
If you would like you can send me an email or give me your direct link to this site and I can send people to your site as well.
Thank you,
William
Dot 10.31.08 at 5:26 am
The way I used to be, I would have been all for this. Now that my dear dogs have died, I’m looking forward to seeing them when I die.
Dots last blog post..Oops, Sorry
Robin 11.01.08 at 10:27 am
Hi there Dot - When my cat died (1993), I felt like a huge chunk of me had been torn out - I imagined seeing her again for a long time. I have only had one person close to me die, and I think in terms of seeing him again when he reincarnates and we all get over this silly death business and can be together.
As for animals, I think we project our love and so on onto them - the love we feel for them is really inside us (well, it’s the same for people, but anyway…) Today, I’m grateful my Cilla (my cat) brought that love out of me, but I don’t find myself yearning for her as an individual - I see her more as the collective pussy-cat spirit. She was so soft.
Peter Simmons 11.15.08 at 9:08 pm
Been a long time since I read such unmitigated nonsense! Are you people for real? Just because you are scared of dying doesn’t mean you won’t. Get over it, grow up and stop being such wusses! Ever thought what would happen if death wasn’t part of life? Piles of plants, shoulder high animals, no recycling of nutrients so no new life. The whole idea is insane. Oh, but humans are special, made in the image of ‘god’ and can live forever, crap. You all WILL die no matter what ramblings you indulge in about choosing. Let’s see you in ten, twenty years from now, older and hopefully wiser.
We are an evolved life-form just like all others. We are mammals like all other mammals, we die and our physical substance is recycled by nature - the cycle of life - and we join back into the stream of life’s nutrients courtesy of the microbes worms and insects. There is no afterlife, no god, no living forever, and no reassurance for those who are scared at that. Get used to it, live with it, stop dreaming about living forever and get on with living now. Just imagine if you can where all the people would go if they lived forever; would they continue to have babies? We are already crowded on this planet’s liveable spaces, will we all live in boxes stacked a mile high?
And who would want to live forever when the world is being trashed so thoroughly that my grandchildren are unlikely to live as long as me, and I have real fears of what they will face in the near future.
Faeries, angels? - I stopped believing in childish nonsense when I grew up.
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